Progressive Dispensationalism

Sam Storms, in his work “Kingdom Come: The Amillennial Alternative,” draws the following conclusion about Progressive Dispensationalism:kingdomcome

“My conclusion is that what at first appears to be a generous inclusion of the Church in Israel’s covenant promises falters on a decisive exclusion from the latter’s inheritance in the land. As much as progressive dispensationalists might want us to think they have moved beyond the distinctives of their classical ancestors, they yet retain a significant dichotomy between Israel and the Church. They want to speak of “one people of God” but can do so only in terms of a common inheritance of “spiritual” blessings. When it comes to the inheritance of the land and those promises associated with it, only ethnic Israelites are recipients.”



  1. irishanglican ~ Fr. Robert · May 13, 2014

    Again, this is an ad hoc answer, and as he admits HIS own conclusion, therein. But even so, I myself who see and hold to some degree the Progressive Dispensationalism (PD), quite admit too, that something of the classic sense of Dispensationalism, i.e. Israel first and really central, is the core of Dispensationalism! And the Holy Land, and ethnic Israel really does matter, as we can see that Jesus/Yeshua returns to literal “Israel”, in Zech. 14! This great chapter again “craters” any mere spiritualization hermeneutically! (Matt. 24: 29-35 / Acts 1: 6 ; 11 / Rom. 11:25-26, etc. / Rev. 1: 7 ; chap. 12 ; chap. 19 ; 21: 9-12, etc.) The prophecy of Christ’s Birth and Incarnation were quite literal! As will be His Second Coming!

    Btw, let us not forget Jesus died as the King of the Jews, the charge over His head on the Cross! And even now “Glorified” on the Throne of God in heaven, HE is still the Jewish Messiah: Jesus/Yeshua! Come Lord Jesus!

    • jm · May 13, 2014

      …read the book Father Robert. It was a conclusion based on evidence. You may disagree with the conclusion posted but to call it ad hoc without understanding how he arrived at his conclusion is premature. The point of the post was to encourage reading.

      • irishanglican ~ Fr. Robert · May 13, 2014

        Note, “evidence” is in the end, the presupposition of the Holy Scripture itself, and not so much a human construct in apologetics! This is the “fluid” nature again of the Holy Scripture itself! As Spurgeon said of the Word of God himself, ‘I would as soon defend a lion’!

        Sadly, you want to write a wee paragraph, and then dismiss the history of Dispensationalism? But this does not honor the subject! Indeed the history of the Reformed ad hoc against Dispensaationalism, sounds to me like a “sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal”! Very sad! Note, Vern Poythress’s book about both A-Mil’s and Dispensationalist’s seeking to understand one another! And too, Robert Saucy’s book: The Case For Progressive Dispensationalism, The Interface Between Dispensational & Non-Dispensational Theology. Having been old school Reformed, I know too well their ad hoc blasts!

  2. johntjeffery · May 13, 2014

    So let me see if I get this straight. The Traditional (or Classical) Dispensationalists, the “TD”s, characterize the Progressive Dispensationalists, the “PD”s, as being in bed with the Amillennialists and the Covenantists, or at least taking a giant step in that direction. At the same time the Amillennialists don’t see a whole lot of difference between the TDs and the PDs, if Sam Storms (above) may be accepted as representative of that group. Hmmm. Think I’ll just duck and maybe they’ll hit each other! πŸ™‚

    • jm · May 13, 2014

      Both Classic (whatever that is) Dispensationalism and Covenantalist are both correct in their criticisms.

      PD’s have altar a few points to aline with CT but nothing has really changed when it comes to the fundamental principle that makes one a Dispensationalist.

    • irishanglican ~ Fr. Robert · May 13, 2014

      Good point John! Myself as both something of the PD and I hope with the TD’s (National Israel), I have to bob & weave! But its that “fluidity” of which I see in “spirit and truth”. Note, I am a Post-triber, and Pre-Mill, there are and have been a few of us! πŸ˜‰

  3. irishanglican ~ Fr. Robert · May 14, 2014

    Btw, if your NOT going to moderate what I seek to say in dialogue? Perhaps I will not reply any longer? I did want John to see my reply! This is always one of the problems with so many modern old school Calvinists! Everything is cut and dry! (And I have been there myself!)… a hard lesson!

    • jm · May 14, 2014

      Father Robert,

      Patience is a virtue…one that I have to learn but it seems I’m not the only one. πŸ˜‰

      I schedule my posts to be published over the course of a week. I’m not online to approve comments every second of the day but I do try to get it done as soon as I possibly can. For the record I’ve never moderated/altered/removed any of your posts, even when I believe you are mistaken or incorrect. (I remove or mod any comments that contain bad or heretical theology like open theism, non-trinitarian posts, etc.)

      This is always one of the problems…

      Yours in the Lord,


      • irishanglican ~ Fr. Robert · May 14, 2014

        @ j: Yes, I just did not want to loose the important thoughts! Of course I write in the A.M. from the hospital, when I am close to my lap-top, but often up and down, so my gaps, etc. In the afternoon I am usually home. But, I do have both one son still around, and of course my dear wife!

        And I never “remove or mod” comments on my wee blog either! Though sometimes, and even often I must NOT moderate hate and just discord, or just plain hardened ignorance!

    • johntjeffery · May 14, 2014

      irishanglican: I saw all of your replies! Couldn’t you hear my loud “AMEN!”s? I can assure you that among my circle of friends there are many post-trib pre-mills! Not the least of which is Fred Zaspel.

      • irishanglican ~ Fr. Robert · May 14, 2014

        @John: We are close to the same page, and I value your insight! Not to mention “we” are military-men! πŸ˜‰ Btw, if I could ask, what is your so-called “Rapture” position? And I promise I will not make this a place for a “Rapture” debate”! Just interested! πŸ™‚

      • johntjeffery · May 14, 2014

        irishanglican: I am pre-trib. Some of us PDs are you know! πŸ˜‰

      • jm · May 15, 2014

        I’ll keep praying for you two brothers. πŸ™‚

      • johntjeffery · May 15, 2014

        And I’ll keep saying, “You’ll see! It won’t be long!”

      • jm · May 15, 2014


      • irishanglican ~ Fr. Robert · May 15, 2014

        Well, I am not sure how one can get a “pre-trib” out of 2 Thess. 2: 1? πŸ˜‰ But we, at least John and I, would agree it won’t be long! Again, one must be quite blind not to see Modern Israel as the “flash-point”! Humanity surely cannot survive the 21st century! There are surely more End-Time Signs now than ever, and the Gentile Apostasy has come, and will simply worsen! And sadly America seems spiritually gone to my mind! I can remember Billy Graham preaching, that if God did not judge America, he would have to apologize to Sodom & Gomorrah! And yes, I know the Brit’s might even be worse off? God alone knows! At almost 65, I have seen too many changes for the worse! But GOD is Sovereign, as HIS purposes! So whatever comes? HE will receive the Glory!

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