The Origins of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture

Posted on The Antipas Chronicles:



  1. irishanglican ~ Fr. Robert · January 27, 2014

    Btw, too bad men like William Kelly, as too JND, John Nelson Darby were not around today! They would certainly bounce this piece on its head! πŸ˜‰ In fact, both actually wrote on this idea about the Catholic theological piece here! But I am not going chapter and verse here, as really those that are hard against the Pre-Trib. (and note I am Post-trib. myself), are just looking for “anything” negative on this subject! But the so-called “timing” of the Rapture” is really a righteous question!

    • jm · January 27, 2014

      I’m convinced you are a crypto Pre-Tribulational Rapturist! πŸ˜‰

      • irishanglican ~ Fr. Robert · January 27, 2014

        Not true, but I do respect a righteous position when I see it! And this is certainly not happening here! The attack on the subject is already a presupposition against, and not a righteous look at the Greek Text and texts themselves! The biblical argument presented by people like both JND and William Kelly, must be dealt with, and not by some ad hoc of just the negative! For example, the text of 2 Thess. 2: 1, is seen “on behalf of” (the Greek preposition, is seen there by both of these men as more than just “about” or “concerning”, but “In” and “By”. E.W. Bullinger also sees “huper” as governs two cases (the Genitive and the Accusative), and denotes “above”, or “over”… “In the interests of” (e.g. 2 Thess 2:1). Thus Bullinger connects here 1 Thess. 2: 19, “Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His coming? Text, yes always Text/texts “themselves”! Not to mention, 1 Cor. 15: 51-52, there “changed, in a moment”, is the Greek word “atmos”…literally that which cannot be cut or divided, hence with ” in twinkling of an eye” (“rhipe” Greek). Used surely of such rapidity, that it cannot itself be seen! Such is the idea too of “harpazo” (Greek), “caught-up”; as is here in 1 Cor. 15: 52! The Rapture surely cannot be seen, as it happens so fast! But the Second Coming most certainly is! But as Vine, says as to “Parousia” (Greek for Coming)…”In some passages the word gives prominence to the beginning of that period, the course of the period being implied, 1 Cor. 15: 23; 1 Thess. 4: 15; 5:23 ; 2 Thess. 2:1…etc.”

  2. irishanglican ~ Fr. Robert · January 27, 2014

    Btw, here too (on this subject) readers should also see the NET Bible, First Edition. It is both on-line and can be bought also. I have a genuine black leather myself! Note too, that his is a basic Hebrew and Greek Translation and study with notes, and many of the men here are DTS (Dallas Seminary) scholars and theolog’s! Yes, some “dispensational” thought surely! πŸ˜‰ But we should also note, that many Dallas guys are today going with, and are closer to the Progressive Dispensational Theology! As I tend myself, but not without the righteous “dispensational” key of “Jews”, “Greeks” (Gentiles) and “the church of God.” (1 Cor. 10: 32)

    Rock On with Ryrie! πŸ˜‰ I challenge every reader to read Ryrie’s Revised and Expanded version of his classic book: Dispensationalism! “No one, whether friend or foe of dispensationalism, can avoid consideration of this important work.” (Bibliotheca Sacra)

    • irishanglican ~ Fr. Robert · January 28, 2014

      Btw, just to clarify, I am not really advocating the Pre-Tribulation so-called Rapture. But we should at least hear the best of their biblical arguments! And btw, too, we must not deny the whole progressive nature of God’s Revelation and Word. And thus our theological understanding of it! And simply on the subject of eschatology, our Reformers were still bound by Catholic hermeneutics! And again, the loss of National Israel really is a loss of proper biblical interpretation, for Paul most certainly taught it! (Rom. 11: 25-31, etc. Noting surely verses 28-29 here!)

      That’s how I see it anyway, and I am not alone! πŸ™‚

      • irishanglican ~ Fr. Robert · January 28, 2014

        And also, the Pre-Trib biblical argument, is that “in the clouds”, are first the clouds of glory that surround the presence of God, and of course here Christ Himself! Thus the Church before the Lord, in His presence & glory (and here is The Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Rev. 19: 4-9), and then too, later, the “sidereal” heavens themselves around the earth, in the Visible Second Coming of Christ, Himself SEEN (Rev. 1: 7 ; 19: 11-14, etc.) Again, I am expressing the Pretribulation Rapture itself, and from their teaching!

      • irishanglican ~ Fr. Robert · January 28, 2014

        BUT, as I have myself noted, 2 Thess 2: 1, and really the whole chapter 2, seems to show and express to me, that the Church will see the Antichrist, (2 Thess. 2: 3), and that the Rapture is thus Post-trib, or perhaps Pre-wrath? Or even Mid-trib? Again, the real issue here is the “timing” of the Rapture! Its reality is quite biblical to my mind! πŸ™‚

        *And lets remember too, this is NOT the 16th century! The Church further along now, over 500 years does matter theologically, and especially as to eschatology!

      • jm · January 28, 2014

        Not sure exactly what modern Calvinism is…I mostly read all it the old stuff published before 1900. That is before Zionism entered Christianity and became an unshakable tradition.

        I will forever be a student and will continue to study but I have to say I am more convinced by my reading and studying of the error of Dispensationalism daily.

      • irishanglican ~ Fr. Robert · January 28, 2014

        Basically, Modern Calvinism is the TULIP, but surely includes a form of Puritanism! Calvin himself simply did not teach a dogma of Limited Atonement! And on grace and God’s glory, I would be myself closer to Calvin for sure, of course without the Catholic form of Eschatology, which is merely more spiritual doctrine of the Church, and of course supersessionism. Here Calvin and Luther did not move much at all!

        Note, I have put up a few Premillennarians, from my blog of late, that were 16th / 17th century century men, William Twisse, English trained and from the Westminster Assemby, as too Mede. And see too Johann Heinrich Alsted, a German Calvinist who was also Pre-Mill. There were always some, who followed the Text over even their full theological systems, per se! Surely a Biblical eclecticism is more noteworthy in my opinion to the Apostles Doctrine, i.e. Biblical Theology, always trumps systematic theology, (again in my opinion!) And both Paul and John (the Johannine) were really Jewish Hellenists, as Paul was Greco-Roman (his Roman citizenship). Indeed “supersession” does not fair at all well here!

      • jm · January 29, 2014

        Basically, Modern Calvinism is the TULIP, but surely includes a form of Puritanism!

        In that case…I am honoured.

        of course without the Catholic form of Eschatology

        Ad Hominem

        ME: “I believe Amil is biblical.”
        Fr. Robert: “Of course you would say that you have been influenced Calvin who held to Catholic eschatology!”
        ME: “What about the biblical arguments that support my position?”
        Fr. Robert: “Those don’t count. Like I said, you have a Roman Catholic eschatology, so you have to say that Premil is wrong.”


        Peace brother.


      • irishanglican ~ Fr. Robert · January 29, 2014

        Sorry mate, but my arguments are hardly ad hom, but historical! But keep reading! Note I have been seriously engaged on this subject since the 90’s, with a wee thing called Gulf War I in between! And then of course living and teaching in Israel. But no High Tower aspect here for me alone!

  3. jm · January 28, 2014

    I’m sorry to disagree with you dear brother but I do not see the Dispensational scheme as righteous because I am convinced it is a system in error. It is rotten from its roots to its logical fruits (Bullingerism and antinomianism).

    • irishanglican ~ Fr. Robert · January 28, 2014

      Well, since I have been where your at (years ago now however), I quite understand your mind and zeal! But just as Pink, you have quite fallen in love with Modern Calvinism, as too some Puritan form also! But if I am right, and Modern Israel central in their land, though in unbelief, and with the great Muslim and Radical Islam on their heels of hate and also unbelief, not to forget Russia! Humanity will quite see evil and ugly days ahead to say the least, for the Mideast Beast is on his way! But time will tell! πŸ˜‰

      Again, I will die a Christian Biblical Zionist! And quite something “dispensational”! Btw too, I have already mentioned that I don’t follow EWB without some criticism, but his good simply outweighs his mistakes! A true “Biblicist” for sure!

      Keep, or seek a “biblical” mind, and not just human theology! πŸ™‚

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